SPEAKER_02: 0:11

Welcome back to Tez Talks Radio. I'm your host, Blangs. Today we're catching up with Ash Brown, the artist, musician, and founder behind Tez Tones and the Tez Tones Athletic Premier League, better known as TAPL. If you've seen the live matches, you know it's part art show, part sports night. Teams of Tezos-based artists creating in real time while the community watches and votes. We had Hash Brown on earlier this year, and a lot's happened since then. Season three has pushed the league further, the matches are tighter, and the energy is higher than ever. Today we're going to get into how he's keeping it fun, how he balances that off-grid creative life with running a live league, and what's next for Tapple. Hash Brown, good to see you again, my man. How's life up on the mountain these days?

SPEAKER_01: 1:04

Life is good. We got enough sun for the solar today. I I was actually just appreciating the production value of Tes Talks right now. The the little intro we had, the animated lower thirds and the motion graphics. Like, this is what I've been trying to do for the stream lately. So I'm I'm loving this. This is fun to watch.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20

Perfect. All right. So you're running your whole setup off of solar out there in the mountains. What does a normal creative day actually look like when you wake up in that kind of an environment?

SPEAKER_01: 1:31

Uh well, yeah, get up, uh, turn the power on is is I have an inverter, so I have to physically turn it on. So my my internet's off overnight. Uh, once it's on, then I get the internet again, so I have to check all the messages that I missed for those, you know, X amount of hours. Check the probably at that point, it's like everyone else for the most part. Like once my power's on, it's pretty similar to other people. But um, yeah, you know, make make a little tea, make a I've been making mate lately since we've had a lot of Argentinian artists in Tez Tones this season. They've reminded me how much I I missed mate. So make a little mate, get up, throw the computer on. Maybe not instantly throw the computer on, maybe like use some TV slash tablet because it's a little less power intensive because we're getting into winter, so a little less power, but you know, wake up, do some creative stuff, walk my dog, um, jump on a call with someone like you, maybe potentially, and here's our day. Here, here's just a normal day in the life, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

Now, how does being off grid change your sense of time compared to when you were in the city?

SPEAKER_01: 2:30

Oh, um, mostly when I'm productive. Uh like because I was very much uh stay up to like 2 or 3 a.m. Because well, and also interestingly, in the city, I feel like because there's so many more like so much more energy, so many more people, like I think I did that 2-3 a.m. because the city like gets quiet by then, you can focus more. But on the mountain, like I have neighbors, but they're like pretty far away, so I can almost always focus. I don't have a bunch of roommates and like other energy going around, but also just because my solar power, like right now, when the sun is out, I have more power and they could only store so much at night. So I try not to deplete too much in the night because sometimes also it'll be like, oh, tomorrow's very sunny, and then the next day isn't sunny at all. And you were like, Oh, I thought I was gonna have a bunch of power. I thought I was getting 600 watts of power every hour. You're getting like 50. Like, oh, I can do less today because I don't have as much gas and I have to save it for, you know, there's just it's just like it's like anything in life, it's like video games. I say it's all just resource management, so it's just changing the resource you manage right now. It's instead of maybe time with other people or distractions, it's time with actual physical energy, you know. Like how much computer hours do I have today that I can use? How much of that do I get used for like fun stuff like video games, or if it's a busy day, some days like you I'll get out of a Test Tones match, I don't have a lot of gas, and it's like I can't play a video game on my computer because it's just that's the amount of power, and that's fine, but that's just the resource management.

SPEAKER_02: 3:57

That sounds uh actually sounds kind of fun. You don't have all your eggs in one basket, yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Now you mentioned before that test tones kind of evolved through trial and feel, almost like you vibe coded it into being. When you sit down to make something, music, visuals, or a new tool for the league. How do you know the vibes right before the code or mix is even done?

SPEAKER_01: 4:23

Honestly, you don't. You just you a lot of everything is just like gut instinct, even making the app itself. Oh oh, we are in the call, no longer need a reminder. I just kept sleeping it instead of actually saying stop. So um like for example, the app, like I started making that at the end of last season just because I was like, let's see if I can vibe code something. And I thought it was a big waste of time and kind of like a side quest. And then once I made it, people were like, Oh wow, it's great you guys have finally have a product. And to me, I'm like, no, like the the season is like the the matches are the product, we've had a product, but then realizing, wait, that's a way to bring people in and connect to them. So sometimes, and some of the things I think is like, oh, this is gonna be the greatest thing ever. And I spend like hours and hours and I work on it, and it's like a tiny contribution to the streams or to the season as a whole. And you're like, okay, maybe that and don't get me wrong, everything's a learning experience. So I'm glad I do all those things. But sometimes you're like, I don't know why I spent so much energy on that one thing that I thought was gonna be a game changer, and then this other thing that I thought was a waste of time. Everyone's like, oh, that's the best thing you've done so far. So I guess you don't know. You I just go with my gut, and um one of our modos that I I always feel like I shouldn't say publicly because it sounds terrible, it's it's fail quicker. I heard it in the It's Always Sunny podcast, and they said our motto is just fail quicker, like get in a bad version of the script so then you can pick it apart. And it's like the straw man theory in you know, different um agile workflow and project management. Like you need to put something out so you can tear it down and build a bigger or better version. So I'm happy to have an idea that's terrible and realize it in in application. Wait, yeah, this is one of the worst ideas we've had yet. Let's do the opposite of this. So kind of just embracing that is the key.

SPEAKER_02: 6:05

Has the engineer in you ever over polished something that felt better rough?

SPEAKER_01: 6:10

Yes. I mean, I mean, like so many things. Well, and for me, the main problem is like I have this perfectionism and like image vision in my head where it's like this is how it needs to go. And even just spending so much energy like polishing a thing, like like in the app or in different things that like like I spent weeks on a project management thing that we're not using as much right now because it was just the whole time sink. But in my mind, I'm like, I need to get this perfect and all these all like it's gonna have all this interaction, you're gonna experience points and like level up and achievements, and it's just like I I need to just let some things go and say, okay, maybe next season we'll like lock this in and make that more of a thing. But like right now, let's focus on the actual season at hand. Um, and just being flexible, also with like like season one, for example, I made a border for every piece because I thought it was like more like magic cards or collectible cards where every piece had a border, it said the the round it was in, it it had something cohesive, they were all in the same square shape of the border, so it was and then last season we moved away and we had no border. And for me to step away from like what I thought was like a cohesive vision, because no one wanted them, and I I wanted them, but no one else thought they were like some a few people were like, I miss them, but yeah, just having to let that go and realize you know this isn't this isn't the hill to die on. There's many hills, some of them are good for dying on, some of them you just gotta look at it and say, you know what, not not today. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_02: 7:36

Now you've lived both worlds the noise of San Francisco Studio and the quiet of mountain life. How has that silenced changed the way you create?

SPEAKER_01: 7:48

Um well, it's just it changes what I can what I can focus on. Like I could not have done Tez Tones living in the city because there's just so much rents overhead and just so much everything. Right now, I'm at a place where like I have honestly I have no rent right now because I'm on a friend's property. I do help upkeep and do some certain things a little bit, but it's like from San Francisco rents. So and again, there is different problems, not problems, but you know, uh challenges with living up here. It is harder to go actually get work because I'm on a mountain and the work I have is in different towns, and it's not like the same rate I would get paid in San Francisco. When I when I lived in San Francisco, I had a studio downstairs that had a 24-track two-inch taint machine. Going to work was me walking from upstairs to downstairs in my pajama pants. I'd make some artists like, you know, you want some tea or something? I would just sit there. I was getting paid more money per hour than I was ever paid before in my life to work in my garage. So, but then I had to do that a lot and work on those artists' work to then pay my rent. So I didn't have the bandwidth I have now. It's it's like, you know, it's always a give and take. So there's some pros where I have so much more mental space and I'm not spending my actual hours working on other people's stuff, but then survival and actually getting paid and chopping wood to stay warm and getting water down in town and counting your computer hours. It's like it's it's funny how in life there's always some limiting factor, right? Like I'm I'm sure even once you're like a billionaire and you're rich, and then then you have those kinds of obligations you need to do. And no matter what, there's never quite the amount of time or energy, or there's always something that's gotta give. So I I have a lot more time and energy to work on like passion projects like this, but then there's also you know, like I said, the the challenges that arise from that, also.

SPEAKER_02: 9:33

So um music, art, and building Tes Tones all seem to hit the same creative nerve for you. If each one were part of a song, which would be the verse, which the hook, and which the bridge?

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

I'm gonna say the verse. The verse has to be music itself, because it's just like what brought me here. Um and maybe that's how I make music, also, because I'm not the kind of person who's like I'm a more lyrical rapper, so like for me, the the verses, the meat and potatoes, and I I have made a more like meme song Lambo land where like the chorus is what it's all about. So maybe if you ask a trap rapper, they might change what the importance of trap rapper is all about the anthem, right? Or the chorus, yeah, yeah. And the hooks, even the like the the bridges are huge for trap rapper. You're like, this is just two choruses, but it's not anyway. Um, I'd say music would be that. Um test tones, I'd say would be the hook because that's what we're trying to like bring people into. That's that's that's the thing trying to bring them in. And then was the third one just art in general, or what was the third one again?

SPEAKER_02: 10:45

Uh we had uh music, we had art and building test tones.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

Yeah, art would be the the bridge because it's bridging between music, which is my first passion, and Blender and all the different you know versions of art I've been learning and then applying them to the course. Actually, that worked out great. Yeah, metaphors. There you go.

SPEAKER_02: 11:06

Well, so that's life and rhythm up on the mountain. Let's shift gears into how that same creative energy plays out when a Taple match goes live. When that theme wheel lands, walk us through those first few minutes from reveal to when the teams lock in.

SPEAKER_01: 11:22

Yeah. Um, yeah, it's always the beginning of the matches, is like so stressful, always also because it's trying to like get in. I've just set up two different teams, which is three to four artists, sometimes only two, on each team, get all of their screens going. And then, and of course, always like you have it completely perfectly set up, and then the second you go to start, someone's like camera moves, it's like last minute, as like ha ha ha, I got so I always got to lock everything in. But yeah, it welcoming people into the match, getting them started, trying to get them started on time, assigning the theme. At this point, I have a lot of like coded in. Um, I've created a live graphic animation system. So once I click the theme wheel, it actually like gets the theme, assigns it, shows it up on stream with a with the graphic in the lower third. And then now I only have to click start match and it shows an animation. It actually starts the clock, it triggers a dialog line and visual that we have um from well, the visual not from, but the dialog line from malicious sheep and audio. So it's gotten a lot more streamlined where I can press a button and a lot of it happens automatically because the thing that's been really hard before is like we get the theme. Now we need to open up another document, change what the theme is there, save that document, go back in, refresh the source that had that going in there so that works, then go to the timer, find the timer, set the timer, click start with an hour 30, tell the teams they have that much time. Also, click the animation. You know, it's like there was like five different things I used to have to click before. Now it's like one button, and I and I'm focusing a little more on like being a better commentator and trying to make the process a little smoother and and bringing in co-commentators has been huge. Like Rocillo's been doing it a lot, uh Mariano did it once, um, and that's been really nice. So maybe when I'm clicking and doing some of that other stuff, we can have someone be like, hey team, how's your creative process? And and they can kind of fill that space where I'm just like, you know, I got the dead eye looking up at the computer screen trying to like find where to click. So that's mostly the challenge, is just trying to not look goofy and like hold on, uh, you know, those moments. But I think I think I'm getting better at that a little bit. I think the overall structure and the artist even knowing what we're doing is making it a little smoother, also.

SPEAKER_02: 13:33

You've described Taple as equal parts art, sport, and production session. What's the closest musical equivalent to a live match? A studio jam, a freestyle cipher, or a full gig?

SPEAKER_00: 13:49

It's kind of like a it's really like a it's kind of like all of them at the same time in a way.

SPEAKER_01: 13:56

Where because it's got it's got the fun improvisational nature of a jam at first, but then it's also got the let's like let's take that element and then build something out of it, which sometimes I love jam sessions and ciphers, but sometimes they just stay there and they never evolve from there, which is great. I I don't think they need to, they're they're great for what they are, but this takes that energy and then it brings it into the studio a little bit as far as let's actually try to create a piece. And and even like when I ran my recording studio, what you don't think about is artists are on the clock, like I'm charging them per hour, so there is a pressure just in the studio to get something that you like done. Because like you don't want to pay$70,$100, three hours, you know, a couple, well, however long it is, um, and then not like the piece you did. Like, there's a pressure to get that piece done. But then also on top of that, the pressure you don't get normally of that is an audience watching you, which is a live performance, right? Like that's kind of the worst idea in unless you're like filming a documentary, and don't get me wrong, sometimes people do that, but for the most part, the studio is like a sacred space where you can experiment and goof off, and no one knows except for the final product. So we have like all three of those mixed in where you have the the the pressure of the live audience watching you sing everything you do, you have the pressure of the studio of trying to get something done, but then hopefully also the joy and the improvisational like fun of the jam and and meeting with people and and and and we assign the themes at the beginning of the match, so it's not like they can really premeditate going to the match what they're gonna do. So that's the kind of jam um nature.

SPEAKER_02: 15:30

So now from the outside it does look controlled, but there's gotta be real chaos behind the scenes. Yes, what are the moments where the plan always breaks down no matter how much prep you do?

SPEAKER_01: 15:45

Set up, like I said before, set up, no matter how much like I've had so many matches where maybe not everything, but like one team is a hundred percent perfect. We have all the cameras of all the artists, you have all the screen shares, you can hear all the audio, you can see all the visual process, and then like the second you go live, you like lose two of the cameras, you can't hear the audio you just heard. You're like, I I did you change something, or did I and then you have to go in while the match is live and be like, Did I can't hear you? Is this are it teammates? Can you hear him? And they're like, No, I can't hear him either, or they're like, Yeah, which is it's weirdly the best thing is when they can't hear him also, because you're like, Okay, that's can you refresh or can you mess something up? Can you fix it? The worst is when everyone can hear someone except for me, and it's like, huh, it's that it's not my fault that I messed something up, but do I need to troubleshoot right now? Do I just need to refresh something? Do I need to reactivate a source? Do I need to like there's those moments where something that was just working isn't working, and you have no explanation why, and you have to both troubleshoot but also like be a host in that moment, and like I know I don't do it perfect. I know I mess up a lot in those moments, and like those moments where it's honestly the fear, too. That it's like for me, it's it's like like I just said for the artists, it's like that that fear of being live and like knowing everyone's watching this and knowing it doesn't need to be perfect, but once you start that stumble and you're just like, uh you know, like your brain something about being live, I think, in a lot of ways, it just ramps up a lot of that pressure. So it just even if it's a trivial thing that shouldn't matter in that moment, getting the screen done, and then and then like and not letting yourself get worked up to then like click the wrong thing to fix it, you know, because you can then mess things up more by like let me it's like just trying to like stay level-headed, I guess, when all the things that were just working break. And and and having faith, it's either gonna fix itself or it's gonna stay broken, and that's just how it is. Not everything works every match, and it's okay, you know. And and ideally at some point we could have more funding, maybe have a place where the artists can either be live or we can help pay for some of the internet and get something more stable, or but we're not there yet. And we and we get what we get and we don't throw a fit. That's what my little sister's daycare was for snack time. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit, and that's life. That's a Test Tones match.

SPEAKER_02: 18:02

Easy way to handle some of that uh fun that comes your way, huh? Yeah well, that's the energy and chaos when everything's moving. So let's talk about what the pressure actually does to you, to the artists, and to the fun of it all. You've talked before about how stressful last season was running matches, commentating, competing at the same time. When did you realize you'd taken on too much? And what did that moment look like?

SPEAKER_01: 18:30

I mean, the funny thing is, is I realize every season at the beginning of every season that I'm taking on too much. And everyone tells me, hey, do less, you're gonna burn out. And I know I'm gonna burn out. And it's just like, am I willing to accept burning out to get our dream there faster? I could not burn out, and we could be, you know, half as far as we are right now if I didn't burn out last season, if I didn't like burn out going into this season. We could be not as far. So it's it's kind of just accepting the inevitable that I know I'm pushing myself too hard, that it's going to happen. I guess giving myself grace when it does happen and not like beating myself up about it, being like, hey, you knew this was gonna happen. You've bit off more than you can chew, you did more than you should have been able to in this amount of time, and you're gonna hit these walls and like need to maybe take a couple days or like a week to let the brain reset. Because it's not really a matter of if it's just like, yeah, you know, when will it happen? And and what life skills can I maybe start learning to help me deal with that? Maybe delegation, maybe you know, self-care. But um, yeah, it's kind of just a reality of it at this point, I think. And it's okay, it's maybe not my favorite, and I should probably listen to some people's advice a little more. And honestly, the the the only time it's really bad, and this is when I try to notice it, is like when I notice myself getting like really grumpy and like actually a little bit of grump, I think, is okay. As a league commissioner, you need to be a little bit of grumpy, but like when I start feeling myself saying things that I uh regret saying, you know, like like more like that I feel like I need to apologize. Hey, I shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry, I was just I I once it affects me and my interpersonal relationships, that's like okay, I need to take a step back. But as long as it's just affecting me, yeah, I'll deal with it, you know. But but I I do want to not become a toxic person because I'm like, I gotta, and that's the thing too, is once you build it up, you have this like, well, I'm doing this so you guys have you know, it's like it's very easy to build this, like we're all gonna die together, and it's like, dude, you're the only one willing to fucking die right now. Like, we need to step back. So just trying to find that balance, I guess, is is part of it. The the unbalance, trying to get the unbalance, the balance within the unbalance, you know. I love it, I love it. Knowing it's gonna be unbalanced, so yeah, planning for that.

SPEAKER_02: 20:49

No, artists they hate structure, but Tapple needs it. How do you keep rules?

SPEAKER_01: 20:54

Oh, really? That's okay. This is literally the most mind-melting, mind-blowing thing that's happened in all of the seasons was pre-season game one. No one, and this was back when it wasn't even live matches, it was four-week processes. We had like five days left, not even a full week left, and like no team, like they were like maybe one team had had a piece ready, maybe Retro Manning and JPZ, because maybe they were ahead of it. But most of the teams had like nothing going, and I had to jump in those discords and be like, come on, guys! Like, I was bad cop to the extreme where I literally thought that out of like what was it, 16, 19, however many people got signed up, I thought we were gonna get like three people to sign up again the next match. And then every single one of them, other than retro, who was like, Hey, I need to step away, but I'll be a judge. Like, and it was just because he was busy. He's like, he wanted to be, it was life stuff. Every single person signed up again. And I thought they were, I literally thought I was gonna burn bridges with them as friends. I was like, these people aren't even gonna like me anymore. Like, it we gotta at least try this, but like I don't know. Um I shouldn't, I should be nicer. And then everyone like thanking me for being like, hey, thanks for making sure we got that in on time. And and it's like this weird thing where it's like artists don't like structure, but they need structure and they appreciate it. They don't like it, but once you force that, like them to do it, and once they and it builds like we need it. Uh even like people saying, hey, this this season challenged me, or this match challenged me, or I'm I'm learning things that I haven't done before, I'm doing things I haven't like those moments of realizing you you don't necessarily like all the things you have to do that make you, you know, grow as a person. And and I dislike a lot of I don't want to be a league commissioner, I wanted this all to be the most decentralized, no one runs anything, we vote on everything thing ever, and then nothing was getting done. So I was like, I well, I'm just gonna make decisions, and if you guys don't like it, we can change it afterwards. So like I'm pushing myself in the same way and and realizing that none of us like this at first, but then we realize later, like, hey, we needed this, and then we appreciate it. So it's this really weird thing where I I would completely agree with you, where I think no artist likes it. But once you once you nail them down to the schedule and force them to create on it, they'll be like, you know what? That was really nice. It's it's like me watching drama movies. I'm like a very emotional person, I'm very empathic. I if if someone asks me, Do you want to watch a drama movie? No, I don't want to get all emotional and sad and cry, and uh uh no, but once I watch a good drama, at the end of it, I'm like, oh, that was the best movie I ever. I'm so glad I did that. You know, it's like that's how artists are with structure, me and drama movies.

SPEAKER_02: 23:40

That's good. I like that. I I I will remember that the next time I think about structure, you gotta keep it dramatic so at least they watch.

SPEAKER_01: 23:48

You know, you know, there's something to it.

SPEAKER_02: 23:50

Well, every season there seems to be a point where emotions spike. People care maybe too much. What's the hardest moment of conflict or disappointment that you've had to deal with inside the league?

SPEAKER_01: 24:05

Um I mean, I think in the the past it might have been what like one of the at least last season I could I can go to is is conflict resolution like during matches or or when there's a conflict during a match, because I don't know necessarily how to sometimes trying to step in and help things, especially as a third party, especially as like the streamer, and you know, if it's one thing if a team is working on something by themselves, but if I jump in and now they know, oh, everyone's watching and hash is like there's a lot of layers on it. So knowing when to step in and say, hey, and that can be even like a miscommunication error where someone's saying something, someone else is saying something else. And it's like, do I let them work through this, or do I jump in and say, hey, what they're actually saying is this, I don't think you're hearing them right now. Whether it's like a language barrier, like we were watching um Paloma's e piratas, and they were talking about what was it, Hades and Persephone, and and Thad just kept saying, Yeah, the name Hades e Persephone or Persephone, because he was saying it all English, and Robert just kept saying, Uroberto was like, What? What and I jumped in and I said Hades e Persephone. I just said it with a Spanish accent. He's like, Oh, Hades! And it's like, do I is this even racist for me to just jump in and say it with a Spanish accent? It's like, no, that's exactly what they needed in that moment. But it's like, huh? Huh? And and I think this season's gotten better where like I I don't know what it was about maybe just the whole structure of the season last season, but people were a little more on edge, and I think this season a lot more people are coming into it, like assuming the best, I guess, where where people are like willing to assume that we're all trying our best. Where it seems like people are getting less triggered, and maybe we've just slowly filtered like that out, or people who don't like the live matches said let's not sign up again, or what, but yeah, um it's been pretty smooth sailing. I knock on knock on wood, but it's been pretty smooth sailing this season. So I I keep saying that it's like the matches are going quite well, and it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_02: 26:13

I think it's it just shows you you do care and you made it worth it, and it's definitely paying off and showing it. Now you've been through the grind and the stress, but it's clear you still love building this thing. So let's slow it down and talk about why. What keeps you coming back to it and what it means beyond the matches? Like you've built something that connects dozens of artists, yeah. Yet you live miles from everyone. Yeah, when you're up there all alone and the work's done for the day, what reminds you that it's all worth it?

SPEAKER_01: 26:46

Yeah, well, I mean, I think in the the answer is part of the question is that I've made these connections with all these artists, and I live by my like because I live by my I used to have a recording studio, I used to have people come in all the time. Like I looked at my folder recently, it was like 1670, it was like almost 120 folders, and some of those folders were like groups with four or five artists. One Rocky G had like 20 Filipinos come in for the Filipino cultural night. Like I have probably hundreds of artists I recorded in San Francisco, and and and was something also that I realized, and and this actually came from watching um different sports, actually, specifically the Pat McAfee show, is they were talking about what they miss more than he was uh an ex-NFL punter for those that don't know, or he was an NFL punter ex now. He runs a uh media show, it's on ESPN, was a podcast, kind of blew up, um, Daily Show, Sports Daily Show. And and hearing them all say what they missed isn't like the game necessarily, it's the locker room, it's that camaraderie, it's that that that is what they miss. And I realized, and just the way they talked about it reminded me of like, man, I miss being in a band, man. I miss the studio. Man, I'm I miss those. It sounds weird, but those forced cultural exchanges, those forced times when you have to work with someone where you become their friend because you work with them, you're co-workers, but you become friends and you build those bonds. And on the mountain, I didn't have people coming through for studio sessions anymore. I didn't have that form of connection where I got to watch people make art and enjoy that process and build and all of that. So watching those shows, it was like, man, I wish I had a team. I wish I I miss being in a band. And like I had I was in bands in high school, I had my recording studio, and I've had various forms of musical collaboration. And when a band ends, it's like so hard to start a new band, especially like you know, in your mid-30s now, when I live off-grid, how am I gonna do that? But it's it was, I'm not gonna say it's easy, but it was easier to meet people online and and find this thing and literally just build what I need as an artist. The the the collaboration, the community, the the feeling, even in Web3 of like being a small ship kind of floating when there's all these giant barges coming by that's gonna like, you know, you're getting their wake and you're getting pulled by them, you're getting crushed. And it's like, let's build a ship for all of us, let's build a raft, whereas we all slowly build up, instead of it being just hash brown, it's like it's Tez tones that we can be together. So I really just built literally exactly what I needed and hoped other people would also either need it or like it enough to want to do it. And um that's kind of just taken us to here at this point.

SPEAKER_02: 29:20

There is a moment in every creative project where it stops being exciting and starts being work. What keeps you showing up when the passion fades for a bit?

SPEAKER_01: 29:30

Yeah, that part in Test Sounds is called the off season. Because it's funny, the off season it's it seems like vacation, but I didn't realize it until we just started the matches this year. The off season sucks because that's when I have to like make all the rules. I like develop all the app. It's like all the pressure to get everything done before the season starts. And once the season started, I was like, wait, I I think it was literally the first match. I was like, wait, I like this. Wait, I I forgot how much I like this guy. This is why I did. All the months of stuff I hate. It's like these are fun. I get to I get to see my friends. I get to watch people make art. And this season I've I've literally learned like three four I've learned so many new artistic processes just this season with like digital video synthesis and like I'm like as an artist who loves just like I love the music side and getting to nerd out about all that, but I love seeing visual art that I have no idea what's going on. And I get to just like be a fan. That's like, what is he doing? Getting to be just a like a consumer as I'm like commentating and just getting to like enjoy that experience. And then also though, getting to ask them afterwards, like, hey, so what was that program you were using? What was that one thing you were like? Because everyone else who's watching, they might have thoughts, they might have whatever. But when you commentate, you get to ask, I can jump in live and be like, hey, what's that thing you're doing right there? Like, I get to ask every question I want. It's it's so fun. So, yeah, the off season, and even, you know, like I said, there is burned out phases in the season. I've hit a couple light ones this season, haven't hit any like crazy hard ones, just times where I've had to take a few days off to let the brain reset. But um, yeah, the planning's not that fun in a lot of ways with a lot of organizations, and just it's just pressure, you know, like even trying to get funding and not getting the season, like feeling guilty about that and asking artists to perform for free. Like, there's a lot in that side of it that's pretty stressful. But the actual matches, like what we're doing, the people here. I mean, I've made I've made so many friends that I'm legitimately considering, and first I need to visit, which is gonna sound crazy since I haven't visited them yet. I'm considering moving to Argentina just based off how many amazing artists I've met in Argentina from Tezz Tones, and I didn't know a single one of them before Tez Tones. A single one of them. They didn't even join until season two. We didn't have any of those Argentinians until last season, and it's one of those things where like if we had quit after season one, I wouldn't have known any of those people. I wouldn't have met any of them. I wouldn't have had these like life, legitimate life path doorways opening up opening up for me from building a sports league for artists. Like, I might move to Argentina because of Tez Tones is the craziest unexpected life thing. But it's like that's that's it is finding there there's a phrase I heard a couple years ago, a few years ago, right when I was actually starting Test Tones, and I think it before it was even Test Tones, when it's on another chain, long story. Um, but the whole concept of don't go where you're tolerated, go where you're celebrated. And I feel like a lot of my life, like I have these crazy ideas, I'm like, yeah, and and and just hoping people and and they're like, Yeah, I'm showing up, but even some of the first Test Tone seasons, people like my friends who signed up, the way they would talk to me is like, yeah, I made it to that match. Like, I did you a favor, like, you know, I did it for you, like you're welcome. And now at the end of these matches, people being like, Thank you so much for hosting these. And it's just like the difference of again, not being like tolerated or like, hey, I did this for you. Like, and I I told I actually got mad at someone and I kind of yelled at them, like, not yelled, but we were having a heated conversation, like, don't do it for me. Like, don't do it for you. You you need to do test tones for you and feel that in your soul. Because if you're doing it for me, you're not gonna enjoy it. If you're doing it for someone else, like if you're not getting enough out of this to actually want to do this, then it's not gonna be sustainable for you energetically or emotionally to want to do this. So it's like, yeah, just finding all of that, I guess, is it's just it's crazy. It's just it's literally opening doors and paths that I could never have expected from from whatever this crazy experiment is that we're doing.

SPEAKER_02: 33:46

So I guess that would be the why. What keeps you in it when no one's watching? So let's close this out by looking ahead. What's next for you for the league and for anyone who wants to jump in? You've said each session or season teaches you something new about how people create together. What's the biggest adjustment you're planning for the next one?

SPEAKER_01: 34:10

Good question. Um yeah, I think I think season one was figuring out the format, or season season one was figuring out if the sports concept was even fallible in any way, which wasn't even the live matches. Season two was figuring out if the live matches because I didn't even know if the technology existed to do what we're doing, if that was possible, and if artists could do it. So we we did that last season. This season's been about like honing the production a lot more and getting it getting it to a point where I'm relatively happy with where it's at production-wise. And I I I feel like I shouldn't even say that, but like it's got a lot of I'm gonna say bells and whistles, even though they're kind of required, but like motion graphics. I'm I'm kind of very happy with how they're feeling. And I guess I guess honestly, where I'm at right now is realizing because also with me is I I've kind of appreciated that we haven't had appreciated in some way that we had we haven't had as many eyes as I feel like we could on Tes Tones because it's still been a like a a you know a progress. Like it's it's not done yet. It's uh it's a product that's that's building. But I think we're finally at the point where like I'm ready to get it out to the world more. I'm I'm proud of it. I'm proud of the artists. I think they're comfortable enough with it that we can. So this next season's it's really like just brainstorming on that. You know, how can we whether that's figuring out how to like vertical stream live so that that gets out to more people, just getting more people, um, and not just from like Web3, because because we did, I think, a lot more good with getting the the NFT player cards and all that stuff, but like just getting more people to view the streams because and and even like I watched a crazy documentary called The Century of the Self that was talking about uh like Freud and oh, I can't remember his nephew's name, but he did like a bunch of um advertising and like hugely like uh influenced how modern advertising even works in the United States and psychoanalyzing it. And something that was really interesting was he was saying, like, it's all about the emotional core, where I'm I'm such a logical person where it's like if you buy this NFT and you get that, then you'll earn these things, and this is why it's a value proposition. You should do it. And I keep thinking, like, people want to do that. And I'm realizing, like, no, we need to we need to appeal to people's emotional core. So, like, how can I build and brand Tez tones more in that sense? You know, even last like last night, I was working on a little script that's I don't know if it's gonna be an ad or something, but there's so many people who want to support artists and like are don't like AI art or or any of those things, and they want to like fight the good fight and support human artists, but they're like the way they're doing that is by like arguing online and and doing all this stuff. And it's like you can support us and help artists get paid and help this dream become real by just a click and subscribe on YouTube channel and b just watching the streams live. Like, like, how can I make the emotional connection to people that like you watching our streams is making artists dream maybe not directly yet, but like once we get monetized, that will make this monetized. People will like that is what's gonna make this real. And instead of the logical do this, then this will happen, then this, like, how do I appeal to people's emotions? Because the people that get what we're doing love it, and like we have some insane fans that are like rabid and come to like every match and show up super and buy and collect all the things because they get the vision and they get the long-term goal we're doing. And it's like, how do we translate that to more people? And that's that's really the goal. Because like we don't even necessarily need people's money, we just like a subscription, whether you even watch it live or just put it on on like a phone, quiet in the background while we stream, you know, we just all all the numbers help us. So working on that, working on um, and me myself like applying for funding in more places because this season I I had a whole sponsorship program, but like I didn't apply for some of the main easier to apply for things. So now that the production is where I think it's at a place where it justifies maybe us getting funded by by the product being what I think is relatively like I don't want to say commercial, but like, yeah, I'll watch some streamers that have thousands of thousands of people watching them and be like, this is not as good as our like just not as good production value-wise as some of our streams. I'll I'll watch like it, I just don't even get it. I don't even get it. I'll watch some streams and I'll be like, we we have we have everything here. So just trying to get that out to more people because I think the artists deserve it, and I think we deserve to um and if not, if if people watch and they don't like it, give us the critiques. Let us know what what we can improve because there is a lot we can improve that I know we can improve on, but there's other things that I don't know we can improve on, and getting it out to more eyes will also help, I think, that iteration process where if people don't know what this is and they watch it, they'll be like, what's going on? instead of the people who we have watching right now have been here for three seasons. Not everyone. We do have, and that's the best thing is is this season having new people show up mid-match in chat and be like, hey, what's going on? And like, thank you for giving me the opportunity to describe the Test Tones Atletics Premier League. Um, but yeah, that that's the goal is is really making it a little more sustainable and getting those metrics up so that we can justify um some more funding and make this more of a self um sustaining venture as far as like financially.

SPEAKER_02: 39:35

Now, for someone watching Taple for the first time, what's the best way to actually join in, whether as an artist, collaborator, or even just as a fan?

SPEAKER_01: 39:46

I I think honestly, and this I know I made it, so I'm I'm a little biased. I think the app, I think going to TezTones.com, signing up for the app, because then you can kind of get an idea, you can get a feel for what what the season is, what the matches are. You can see the live matches in the app, you can see the standings, you can look at some of the various things we have going on there. Um, but then from there also, and the app's the best way to find out when they are when the matches are scheduled. Um, you can also from the app add in to your Google Calendar. Because I think uh last time I was talking to you actually in the space, Kryptonia was like, Hey, do you have text notifications? I said, No, we have email. And then I was like, but cal so since then we we've improved it. You can now add all the Tez Tones matches to your calendar so you can get calendar notifications. Um, and yeah, just trying to bring the people into the matches. Um, as I think the best way, either as a fan or as an artist to know what we're doing is just tune into a live match, um, see what it is, ask some questions, DM us um at Tez Tones T-E-Z-T-O-N-E-S um that on Twitter, join our Discord. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 40:52

Alright, so last one. Off grid, all in, still creating. What's the next verse you're writing for yourself? The next verse?

SPEAKER_01: 41:04

Oh, probably a Test Tones match, and I won't know until the the the theme wheel spins. It's weirdly, I've been like making a lot more. I mean, I guess not weird, but like I haven't I haven't I've been so busy with Test Tones, I haven't done my own music much. So it's been actually really nice to like have Test Tones to force me to like I'm an artist still, you know. Like last match I made a verse that I I really like, and I don't even know how in the middle of a match I did that because it's so stressful when you like know that no one on the stream is seeing anything else. Other than it's like one thing if you're on stream, you're like, maybe they're watching something else, but you're like, they can't hear anyone else because the whole stream is watching me as the commentator not watch anyone else to write my own lyrics right now. Um but yeah, probably whatever the heck we get on the theme wheel, and that that'll be it. Hash brown.

SPEAKER_02: 41:55

Man, well, that's a solid place to wrap it. Hash brown, I appreciate you coming through and taking the time to really break this down from the chaos of live matches to the quiet work that happens up on the mountain. For everyone listening, you can catch the Taple matches and all things Test Tone on their socials and the site Tez Tones.com. Uh, don't forget to subscribe over on YouTube. Now, whether you're an artist, musician, or just curious, jump into a mattress stream. It's the best way to see what this community's built. And if you like this episode, check out past Test Talks on YouTube as well. I'm Blangs. Thanks for hanging out, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01: 42:34

Yep, thanks for having me.