Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Tez Talks Radio. I am Marissa True, and today I am joined by a couple of familiar and very friendly faces out here in Singapore David Teng, the Managing Director of TZAPAC, and Jeevan Tulsyani, Head of Marketing of also TZAPAC. Hi guys, how are you both today?

Speaker 2: 0:17

Hey, marissa. Good good, it's almost the end of the year, so festive season is kicking in.

Speaker 3: 0:24

Yeah, very well, mar marisa, thank you for having us. Yeah, it's been a very, very uh, action-packed 2024.

Speaker 1: 0:31

I would say a lot to be grateful about yeah, I've obviously been watching your team from afar, and 2024 has definitely been very action-packed. Actually, we spoke to tzaAC not too long ago when we interviewed Imran, the Deputy Head of Lab Strategy, who shared everything we needed to know about the Fortify Labs program that you guys have spearheaded. But for this episode, I'd love to chat with you both more broadly on what TZAPAC has accomplished in this past year and what lies ahead for 2025. So the big question to kick off with is you know what are some of the biggest milestones TZAPAC has achieved in this past year?

Speaker 2: 1:11

So maybe I'll take that first. I think, like for TZAPAC this year, the real focus was really on 45Labs, right. So having these seven startups looking at what we need to actually build up, what type of infrastructure we need to build up to support them, and that actually led us to create a couple of initiatives. So we have the TZ Apex program, which Jeevan can share more about. Regarding that, we have Trailblazers. We really established a wider framework with more enterprise and VC partners, us, we really established a wider framework with more enterprise and VC partners, and this gives us a much stronger support level. So, out of the seven startups that we have at Fortify Labs, three of them we actually deem as a certain level of success.

Speaker 2: 2:04

We have OCV, which you probably know him, he's very outspoken on Twitter and everything. So for OCV, there are two projects that's building on top of OCV, so that is Degenerative Art as well as Block Reflex. So that's particularly interesting because it engages with the community. And, on the other hand, if you're looking at, like you know, akaswap they actually develop Akagames and also the Akadrop feature, and they managed to engage with, I think, five enterprise clients during the year as well. So they have done the Taiwanese presidential election.

Speaker 2: 2:51

So when the president was inaugurated, you can actually take a photo and it's actually sort of like you know, using AI tools, you actually be placed together with the president and you'll be met as an NFT. So those are all pretty cool, and the most exciting of is quest flow, which is um, a multi-agent, uh coordination to. They are in the middle of raising their own um and and I think, like you know, um, the progress has been great. Uh, we, we do see them, them as a party where they can increase composability with other projects in the Tesla ecosystem. So I think those are a couple of big achievements, but, yeah, maybe Jeevan can share about TZ, apex, trailblazers and a lot of those other interesting initiatives that we have, sure, sure.

Speaker 3: 3:44

Fortify Labs obviously was a big focus, and what we wanted to do here at TZAPAC was to galvanize the community, I would say, behind the projects in Fortify Labs. So the first thing that we did was to gather the OGs in the Tezos ecosystem here in Asia A lot of very long-time artists and enthusiasts from the Philippines, from Indonesia, as well as from other parts in Europe and North America as well and we gathered them and we basically created a group called the TZA Back Trailblazers. So what that means is basically a lot of these pioneers joining us in our quest to support these startups and basically projects building in Tezos in general. One of them is Tozat. You may have heard about him a lot, so he creates a lot of very nice infographics, very nice Twitter threads on the projects. It's voluntary and it's completely out of their own heart, their own time. So that's the TZ Apex Trailblazers program. And then we also created TZ Apex, which is basically a community reward program.

Speaker 3: 5:12

So we understood that one of the biggest needs of any Web3 project is a community of early adopters and product testers, especially at such an early age, such an early stage.

Speaker 3: 5:27

And with TZ Apex, through incentivizing, we actually managed to get almost a thousand participants in TZ Apex so far, over the first three seasons at least, and what this means is that they actually get rewarded for trying out the products.

Speaker 3: 5:48

So if any of the products they have dApps, you get rewarded for trying out the dApps, for creating an account, and then they get points for UGC as well If they like the experience like, for example, what David mentioned, the Akash Hop activation. So they get to mint an NFT, they get to post it on Twitter and then their friends see it, their friends like it, and what we've actually done is to make it bigger than 45 labs, so make it ecosystem wide as well. So for season 2, in our rewards pool we actually added a lot of prominent NFTs, autes, tezards, as well as those of our local champions, our regional Asian champions as well, like Tommy Chandra and merchandise from Beyond Kaiheha and Mumu the Stan as well. So, yeah, that's something that we've focused a lot on this year, basically getting the community behind the projects as well and also giving the community a lot of exciting activities and rewarding them for the loyalty in the Tezos ecosystem.

Speaker 1: 6:59

So a lot is what I'm hearing and I think what's magical about all of the initiatives that TZAPAC has undertaken is that it's not just about, I guess, incentivizing newcomers to come build new products on Tezos, but to also you know, as you, to use your words to galvanize the community and to pay homage to the people who have been there from the start and to actually create this cohesive network of individuals who are all creating something fairly unique and independent, but seeing them merge together in some kind of cohesive way. So, as you mentioned, you know, there was, there was TZ, apex, there was Fortify Labs and the last was remind me the name.

Speaker 3: 7:39

TZ Apex Trailblazers.

Speaker 1: 7:41

Trailblazers, which I think is fantastic, because I don't often see within the Web3 space this kind of continuity across projects, where you're not just incubating new ideas but you're trying to encourage them to mature over time. So, to use your example of Akaswap, in terms of expanding from art into gaming, but using the same fundamental technology is a magical thing to see, but using the same fundamental technology is a magical thing to see. But you know, 2024 was an exceptional year within the industry overall. What were some of the things that you think helped drive momentum in these areas, given?

Speaker 2: 8:22

we were sort of coming out of, I guess, a bear market at the end of last year. Yeah, I think like probably two things that really work well for us, one being that, you know, for Fortify Labs, the focus has always been on towards the curriculum and the program and the sort of support that we provide. So, like in a very, very harsh environment, right, like you know, usually it's very difficult to raise funds, it's very difficult to actually get to somewhere if you're an aspiring builder or developer in the space. So that's where we sort of seek to actually plug the gap. They may not be able to raise funds now and they just acknowledge that, hey, like you know, at the current stage of the project it's just not possible. So what we do is that we, like you know, at the current stage of the project, it's just not, it's just not possible.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Um, so what we do is that we, you know, we come in very deeply, we come and clean up, like you know, the go-to-market um strategy, figure out if there's a pmf, um, and after that, you know, we have a team that you know whether it's helping them in terms of community building, um, um, doing, doing, doing a focus group, uh, whether it's to actually connect them with, like VCs after that coach and mentors to actually sort of, like you know, whip them into shape pretty much.

Speaker 2: 9:34

But I think that's the idea that you know, and this is something that I believe, that a lot of the projects they actually they really really they really appreciate this approach. And, of course, the second portion is also towards Etherlink. Right, like you know, in an environment where it's even more difficult to find projects or projects you know they require a lot of funding because you know they just can't get, they can't raise VC funding. That's where I think Eterlink was really a good move, where it provides, where it's, an EVM compatible roll-up to Tezos and that allows these builders, these cash-strapped developers, to actually very easily bootstrap, using existing repositories and libraries to create the project they want to and actually launch in a record time, as compared to doing everything from scratch. So I think those are probably the two biggest things that actually affect us in how we actually navigate this pretty turbulent environment this year.

Speaker 1: 10:45

So Etherlink was a bit of an amplifier in that respect, in terms of it gave projects sort of this potential for much greater distribution, even if they were sort of just starting out, so they could kind of see the trajectory from the outset, so that it wasn't. It didn't feel like an endless road to nowhere, when the market was quite grim and let's just admit that morale was quite poor yeah but through those exercises, what are some of the lessons that you learned?

Speaker 1: 11:14

because I'm willing to bet that you know developing a program like fortify labs didn't come without its learning curves. So what were sort of the major lessons that you experienced and how did you sort of navigate that?

Speaker 2: 11:26

Jeevan. Do you want to take?

Speaker 3: 11:28

this first Sure. So I would say that, first and foremost, the entire team was very, very clear about our value proposition from the start. So you know, there are many, many good quality startup programs out there in Web3 and Web2. Many good quality startup programs out there in web 3 and web 2, but for us, for tz apec, we 45 left 2024.

Speaker 3: 11:51

This year's one was basically our third cohort and because of our experience in the first couple of cohorts, we understood very quickly what our strengths were. We speak a lot to the startups who we've supported and being on the ground helps us to understand exactly what strengths, what are our value propositions and what exactly is our impact. So that that was the first step for us as a team. You know, understanding like what kind of a, what kind of a program 45 labs would be. And that's when we understood that the impact that we make. It basically is underpinned by our ethos, which is like providing bespoke care for every startup, meaning we listen to them, we understand what their problems are, where they are at the stage, and then we deploy the resources accordingly.

Speaker 3: 12:43

Small cohort sizes we had seven this year so that means more attention to each of the startups. We have a startup manager looking after the startups. Each of them have a mentor assigned to them. I guess that has helped us to focus in terms of what is our ethos and then our offerings. And, as well as you know, when the project starts till the project ends, how can we help them to get there? Yeah, basically, david. Maybe david, david can articulate this better but supporting them in their journey, you know, like, like as builders and then becoming like successful founders. There is a very long, bumpy and treacherous, treacherous ride in between. That's where we are there to to. We are in the corner, there to support them and to empower them.

Speaker 1: 13:43

Basically, yeah anything else to add, david?

Speaker 2: 13:48

I think I think I echo a lot with what um jiva mentioned, like even though it's our third year running this um, this year we run it differently, because the first two years was more like incubator and this year it's uh, we call it a startup studio. It Some people will tell me it's an accelerator, but I think it's sort of a mix of both. But because we were so much more involved in the past year, the goal for these startups were always to raise money. The end was like no, we do a demo day, they raise money, and that was the end of it this year. We were like okay, look at this very volatile environment. It's not that easy to raise money. Maybe what you have to do is you have to actually show product market fit, to actually show that you have some numbers over there, and this also sort of changes how we run the program.

Speaker 2: 14:42

One of the initiatives that we did this year is that we actually provide developer hours, legal hours, ui, ux, designer hours. These are all external vendors and partners that we have. So one of the biggest learnings is also to solve that. Now we learn what are the soft resources that builders and developers require vs what we think those resources are, for example, company registration. We're like, oh, every startup has to register a company, but actually they only need to register it when they are raising money, so for the first half they don't actually need those resources. Smart contract audits Usually they don't need smart contract audits. Usually they don't need smart contract audits until they are at a much later stage. But maybe what they need is they need legal advisory to tell them that hey, what you are doing is legal, you're not going to go to jail for that. So things like this. I think it just reshapes us on what are the impactful, reshapes us on what are the impactful resources to actually provide the startups.

Speaker 2: 15:49

And I think the second one you're going to laugh at me, marissa, for this, but because why did we think about this? Is that initially, what we envisioned Fortify Labs to be? Is that it's a fully remote? Of course, there is one point which is at the end of the program, where they come down to Singapore and we know we do an event alongside Token24.9 so that you know they get to meet everybody in the industry, they get to solve, like you know, in a very, very informal way we didn't recognize is that the importance of actually having an off-site for these projects so that they can actually know us, know each other and actually do more. So it feels like a beginner's mistake that we failed to see that. Hey, actually, two months in we realized that, hey, a lot of these projects, they're actually a bit slow in response, they're a bit more, in a way, let lethargic. That's when we're like okay, we need to do it off-site. We pivoted very quickly and we did it off-site within a month.

Speaker 2: 16:47

So I think that's another key learning that, regardless of anything online, you still need to have some physical event to build these bonds, to build this trust and relationship. So I think that's the second biggest learning. So we learned from that. We're going to do that both items next year for sure.

Speaker 1: 17:10

No, I love that a lot, because what's reflected in those learnings is what many people tend to over underestimate in terms of what startups actually need, and I think you know it's always a concrete, objective metric to be able to see what a project is able to fundraise, but to be able to provide it with all of these other resources, whether it's something as simple as you know their brand messaging, or making the right connections, or understanding who they might want to partner with, or even something as simple as a human connection, which I know you thought I would love, but I actually think it's so critically important that it's great that you recognize it that early.

Speaker 1: 17:49

And so to basically be able to encapsulate all those learnings and make these various projects and startups feel supported, well beyond the capital they may eventually try to raise, goes to show, and I think that success is reflected in how far they managed to develop and how far they managed to take their initial idea from concept to reality. Um, that all being said, you've done three fortify labs seasons. We're coming into the fourth, so what can people expect in the 2025 batch?

Speaker 2: 18:21

yeah, so, um, we are. We have learned a lot right. So, like, for instance, some of the initiative would be definitely, like you know, a much more powerful TZ APEX program. We also sort of, like you know, we are also rejigging up, like you know, more legal hours. We are rejigging up more partners in line with that, partners in line with that. So this means that a lot of the projects, they have wide access to credits with a lot of our partners that we have. Additionally, we have actually announced the 2025 cohort, so the number that we have placed in terms of the value that we're providing is actually $650,000. So I believe the numbers was like $10,000 in grant up to $200,000 at the end of it if they actually managed to secure investment from the foundation. There are a lot of resources that we're actually putting in in terms of, like you know, whether it's community engagement, where there's a physical event, where there's an offsite. We also streamline the coach that we have. So now, right now, we have a coach and a mentor, as well as, like you know, in terms of advisors.

Speaker 2: 19:41

Last year we went for not last year, it's actually this year, in 2024, we went for, uh, not last year, it's actually this year, in 2024. Uh, we went for a wide uh range of like advisors, from like marketing advisors to, like you know, exchange everything a white widespread. But we realized actually what a lot of these startups need. They actually just need a vc advisor, uh, sort of like a shark tank advisor, to solve like no grill. They actually get them up to pace.

Speaker 2: 20:03

They don't actually actually need, for instance, a marketing advisor. So that can be something that we actually do in-house. So those exciting portions is what you can expect, as well, as we have plans to launch sort of alumni program. Yeah, because at the end of 45 laps is a program right, so this sort of limits the amount that we can actually support these teams. So, with the alumni program, selected projects will actually join the alumni program and this means that they have a dedicated account manager that is able to connect them with, is able to connect them with, actually be something like their shepherd to different entities within the Tesla ecosystem.

Speaker 1: 20:52

So to any potential projects who might be interested in embarking on the Fortify Labs journey, now is the time to basically look at applying, because this program is getting better and better and the opportunity is now if submissions are open. Javan, I would love to also broach what you have in mind as head of marketing in terms of your priorities for next year, beyond Fortify Labs and, I guess, like the homegrown in-house initiatives, what are your plans in terms of not just amplifying is it APAC's efforts? But you know Tezos as a network in and of itself?

Speaker 3: 21:28

Absolutely so. First and foremost, I would say the community side of things. With Easy Apex, we've showcased a very decent display of how we can get the community together, how we can get the community to not just uh, you know, come in and and work on, work on a campaign together, but also trying out products built by projects on on tezos. So, yeah, we are seeing we seem kind of like, kind of like a culture being shaped over here, if if I can call it that way where we have projects building on Tezos and then we have community members empowering them, trying out the products, being the early adopters, being testers, focus groups A lot of them, like the trailblazers, sometimes get involved in focus groups and stuff like that. And then for the 2025 cohort that is just being launched, we are actually getting. We are actually coming up with a, with a mechanic where the community member actually suggests really good builders in the network who can be good additions to 45 lives 2025. So so what we are trying to do here is to create a culture, a community first culture, where the projects are from the community, the users are from the community, we all support each other, we all work together, help to empower one another. So that's something that we will continue to do.

Speaker 3: 23:03

The Trailblazers program as well a lot of good responses so far from our OGs and for the people who have been part of the program. We are actually looking at maybe expanding it for it to be like a Trailblazer program for the Tezos ecosystem and not just a TZA-backed trailblazer. So we can expect a lot more consolidated efforts to galvanize our community across the year. Right now what we've done is to show some good progress with the community in Asia, but of course, the Tezos ecosystem is very vibrant, it's huge, it's very collaborative. So we do believe that what we have over here, we can expand it also for the wider Tezos ecosystem.

Speaker 1: 23:58

So I guess, to a degree, that's how you basically see TZAPAC's role evolving in the global Tezos landscape is to basically take the initiatives that have been born at home and then expand them outward so that others can participate. That all being said, looking closer to home and this question is open to the both of you are you seeing any trends that are particularly unique to Asia that you plan on leaning into in the current year that may be slightly different from, I guess, the global crypto market landscape?

Speaker 2: 24:34

Maybe I'll suggest one. So one of the big initiatives that we are pushing out next year is what we call one degree of separation. So, marissa, you know, is it six or seven degrees of separation? Is this? The entire world is actually connected through six or seven different handshakes. Right, that you know you can reach anybody in the world with, like you know, seven handshakes.

Speaker 2: 25:00

So the idea is that like for to sort of, like you know, to really push forward a community led initiative, especially some communities that's very, very strong and very close to heart in Asia. So to push out, like you know, sort of a one degree of separation where, if it's possible for us to actually get, like you know, if we know, a VC and get a VC to sort of introduce us, to actually get, like you know, if we know a VC and get a VC to sort of introduce us to their circle, if we know community members, can the community members bring in their circle and, like you know what Yvonne mentioned, like you know, if there are some developers, can they bring their circle into, like you know, the Telsa Circle system. So I think that there's one key trend that we're sort of, like you know, trying to leverage on. It's not really a trend, but it's more of like a cultural element. That no, it's very, very um, it's very soft.

Speaker 2: 25:54

Like you know, asia focused um, and yeah, like I think the second one is um, also to have a better look at, like you know, what's the um, the, the regulatory um, um landscape, um, in the coming, in the coming year. So I think that, uh, yeah, for instance, like you know, um Singapore, I think just yesterday or two days ago I've not taken a deep breath into it, but they have actually published a paper regarding how they want to push for more tokenization within Singapore. So I think those are all initiatives to sort of like look at in the coming year.

Speaker 1: 26:37

So basically tapping into the network or like the ecosystem of people that are here, that can, I guess, make the world feel a little bit smaller and a little bit more connected, but also to just keep an eye on the. I guess the regulatory bullishness that has been fairly characteristic of Asia and you know more specifically Singapore, and it does sound like 2025 is going to bring in a lot of new opportunity. But are you guys foreseeing any potential challenges that you're preparing to overcome or is there any friction points that you're anticipating in the year ahead?

Speaker 3: 27:11

Maybe I can take this, david, first. So I guess, being in Web3, honestly one of the challenges that we face is the unpredictable nature of the industry and how trends are fleeting. You know, like earlier this year, deepin was massive. It was one of the areas that got a lot of attention from investors. I was reading a report back then in Q1. But then where is that trend and where is the hype right now? So that's one example, because, as a startup studio, obviously we need to be aware of these trends and there's a lot of pivoting that happens within the startups and stuff like that, as they, as they try to understand their product market fit, they try to understand, you know, who the target audience is, whether they want to go b2b, whether they want to go to b, they want to go b2c. So that that's so. All this is, uh, definitely part of the all. This is adding a lot more nuance into an otherwise already very challenging landscape for entrepreneurs and for builders in Web3. So, in order to overcome them, what we emphasize a lot in Fortify Labs is the expertise, the industry expertise that we have. So, like David mentioned earlier startup coach, startup mentor we have advisors over there and these advisors are on the ground, they are practicing advisors, they are people who've been there, people who've done that and continue to do it. With the support that we have, we are able to to get the, the projects in the right direction most of the time and and yeah, that's, that's definitely a a big part of it.

Speaker 3: 29:05

Um, another, another challenge that I I foresee is um getting non-web3 natives to actually interact with some of these products. A lot of our participants at the moment for TZApex we take TZApex as an example a lot of them are Web3 natives. They have existing wallets that they can connect and interact with the program. Unfortunately not unfortunately, but a massive area for us to look into for next year is how can we get non-Web3 natives in there? And we actually did kind of like a first experiment at Tezos Realm, which was the showcase that we did in Token 2049, where 15 projects in building on Tezos and Etherlink actually showcased.

Speaker 3: 30:01

So we did an in-person questing CRP thing at Tezos Realm where if they go to each and every one on the booth and do the instructions needed, they actually get rewarded for it. They actually get stamps on their card and then they can show the card to our staff and then they get a reward in return, whether that's merchandise the first 10 people got Manchester United Tezos Training Kids. So they were really, really happy. But we had a lot of very good rewards as well. So that's given us a lot of encouragement that if we make it easy and if we make it a little bit more seamless, we are able to also get the non-Web3 natives involved. You know, as long as they have some interest in tech, then we don't see why they can't interact with Web3 projects as well. So that's something that we are looking into as well. So that's something that we are looking into as well.

Speaker 1: 30:56

So what I'm hearing is that mainstream adoption sort of an industry-wide Rubik's Cube of a puzzle where everyone's sort of working relentlessly to crack the code. But I think I really resonate with your first point, which is that there is like a fleeting nature to this industry, which means that our attention span doesn't rest on one application of blockchain technology for too long. So it's about figuring out how do we make these very viable, incredible projects sustainable enough, even when the attention around them or the fanfare around those projects are fleeting, are fleeting, and how do we make sure that those projects actually come to light in a meaningful way, even if everyone else is sort of caught up with the tide and looking elsewhere by that point in time, which I think is another overlooked challenging point within our industry. David, did you have any to add?

Speaker 2: 31:52

Yeah, actually I have a very hot take for that. Actually, I have a very hot take for that In terms of, if you're just looking back, the past three or four years, since the last pretty much bull market, applications have evolved In terms of, if you look at whether it's games, whether it's like DeFi, they have all evolved. They have become a lot more intuitive In terms of integration. They're very integrated, so it's very seamless where you have, like you know, aggregators, the likes you have seen, even, like you know, web-free companies launching phones. So there are multi-chain phones. There are also Web3 game consoles and everything. There's so many products out there. A lot of the devs which were previously bounded to a web browser are applications on a phone now.

Speaker 2: 32:56

So I think, in terms of barriers to entry for people to actually adopt such technology, it's incredibly low right now. So it's already gotten to a stage where I think, like you know, we are so ready for mass adoption. The only caveat is, of course, that I believe that you know, within the next couple of years, the one thing that's preventing mass adoption is really regulatory acceptance. So, with more regulations and more clarity, I do feel that that's the thing that's actually stopping us to get the mass retail market from Web2. So, for instance, a lot of the Web3 games now they can't actually they can't actually sell gachas, and gachas are, like you know, um, it's, it's used in almost every single web 2 games because there's a there's a lot, there's a lot element. At the same time, like no, it is also a way for people to solve spend in a micro manner and actually earn revenue. But because the results of the gacha can be sold for USDT or USDC or any stable coins, it's seen as gambling, which is the difference from the web tool.

Speaker 2: 34:09

So if there's more regulatory clarity regarding such frameworks, I think that will actually that will actually be the, the key items which will allow a lot of these companies that has already built amazing products to actually approach on on on a mass market, compared to, like you know, what we have done in tesla's realm, which is, at the end of the day, still a private, close-off event, um, just for the web3 crowd. So I think that's the. So I think that's my hot take that it's just lacking the regulatory clarity. With that we will hit mass adoption.

Speaker 1: 34:44

Right. So, on the one hand, we can't actually underestimate how far we've come in terms of making more user-friendly technology, but then the biggest hurdle is regulatory, because I think it largely comes down to treating every blockchain-based application like it's a cryptocurrency and any volatility associated with the market or any way that we can treat a digital asset any close like you know, close to a security, what have you puts a lot of fog and confusion around what's actually being built. So unless we, unless we clear all that up, we're going to be going in circles for quite a while, and hopefully next year actually clarifies a lot of that, because there's a lot going on in the States right now that might boost things along. My final question for you both is in terms of TZAPAC 2025, what's next? What's the big thing that you guys are really excited to lean into in the coming year?

Speaker 3: 35:39

Well, I would say that I mean, if you look at TZAPAC, our role if we can put it very succinctly, I would say it's an ecosystem enabler.

Speaker 3: 35:49

So, whether you are a community member, whether you are a builder, whether you are a founder, whether you are an artist, we are here to help and we are here to support to the best of the means that we have.

Speaker 3: 36:09

And so, overall, if you want to look at it in a broader term, I would say we really hope that, with whatever that we are doing for Fortify Labs, with the support that we are giving to these builders, we really hope that we are harvesting the next generation of dApps that are being built on Tezos. We want to really showcase the innovation that's coming out of all these talented individuals and talented teams and also give members of our community many of which have been there for very, very long time, as well as those curious looking in from other ecosystems it's really, I feel like we have a good shot at making this. You know, continue to help the ecosystem to thrive and to give people a lot of reasons to be in this ecosystem. Just enjoy the innovation that's coming out of the Tezos ecosystem, because there's a lot of talent and there's a lot of vibrancy here.

Speaker 1: 37:05

So basically capturing the fruits of your labour and watching them flourish in the next year.

Speaker 3: 37:11

Exactly. Nothing would make us happier, and David.

Speaker 2: 37:15

I think it would be. So, like in the past Test Talks, we've always spoke about TZ, APEC and we always talk about it, like you know, adoption entity based in Asia, focused on Asia. I think we are still focused on Asia, but, like, the direction is that you know, we are just going to be exclusive to Asia and I think that puts a point right. For example, for TZ Apex, it's a community questing platform. It activates the community. It allows the community to support developers. There's building products for them in this ecosystem. So for TDA Packs, you know we have requests that it's not from projects that are not based in Asia to actually be a part of it and also we are not limiting, like the questing, to be just people. That's based in Asia as well.

Speaker 2: 38:11

So I think there's a lot of expansion regarding this portion. I know there are plans for Trailblazers to also be more international than Asia. So I think that's of course the focus will still be in Asia. But the idea is that if there's great initiatives that come out from TZAPAC, we are not going to be gatekeeping. It to like okay, just for the Asia community, because we're exclusive. It to like okay, just for the Asia community because, like you know we're exclusive, but like more, like let's expand it out, let's broaden it so that, like you know, it's more of a global side, that you know everybody's aware of what's happening in Asia, what we are doing, the good programs that come out of it, rather than yeah, so I think that's the crux of it, that, um, we're going to push for initiatives a lot more to everybody, rather than like, no, just asia so a locally grown initiative, but aiming for more global impact is also what I'm hearing yes well, fantastic.

Speaker 1: 39:15

I mean, as you guys know, I love the TZAPAC team and I love watching you guys grow from afar. So thank you both so much for sharing not only what you've accomplished in the past year but what you have yet to accomplish in the year ahead. Best of luck and Godspeed, and thank you both for joining me today.

Speaker 3: 39:34

Thank you for having us. Thank you so much, Marisa.