Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Tez Talks Radio. I am your host, marissa True. Apologies for having a bit of a sore throat today so I sound a little bit more hoarse, but joining me once again on the show is Victoria West. So to any newcomers on the show, victoria is an activist, a storyteller, a photographer and host of fellow Tezos ecosystem show Tez Talks ecosystem show Tez Talk. Victoria was also instrumental as a curator for the Tezos ecosystem in the Subjective Art Festival, which was held at the end of September in partnership with some of Web3 Art World's leading partners and supported by our very own Tezos Commons. So welcome back, victoria. How are you today? I'm great Thanks for having me. So firstly, I'd love for you to give us a primer on what exactly Subjective NYC is and how you came to get involved.

Speaker 2: 0:48

So Subjective was a three-day art fair in New York City. It was held at Loom Studios, which is an immersive space, but also they have multiple. I think they have six floors total where they have a lot of different digital art installations and some physical ones. So I had worked with them in the spring when we did the stellar tezos event there during nftmyc and um, my friend, flexosaurus lou, he was actually speaking to, he was he was there at the event and was part of it and he had been speaking to, um, some of the guys that that run it, dotan who, who owns it, and they were planning subjective for the first time and he was telling me about it and you know, um, I thought it was a really good idea. I thought it was something that would be valuable. It was really really like grassroots. I really like what those guys are doing and in my last experience there, having been to a lot of different venues in New York, I felt like Loom so far has been the most impactful for me the way that you see the art, you know seeing people who are not part of the space or you know even part of the art world, really being immersed in it and being interested in it. I feel like it's such a good way to like outreach and bring people in. So I spoke to Alex at Tezos Commons and he agreed that this was something of value and I thought Tezos and Tezos artists should be represented there. So thanks to their sponsorship, I was able to curate. I probably should have checked. I think I had 14 artists, something like that, and we had six screens, so there was quite a bit of screen time for each piece. I think we had 21 pieces total for the three days and yeah, it was a really great event.

Speaker 2: 2:47

I was pleasantly surprised with the turnout because you know it wasn't during any other NFT event. So I kind of hung out around our area most of the time and I had a lot of conversations with people who were there looking at the art, you know, checking out the QR codes and asking questions like what is this, what? What you know? They, they I mean they knew what the art was.

Speaker 2: 3:10

But, like when I go to this place, like where you know, on object, they're all an object like what is this? And having that conversation and and yeah, it felt good. It felt like it was kind of getting us out of our bubble which we tend to very much be in, and it can feel like an echo chamber sometimes. So, yeah, I think it was also really good for the community because, you know, solidify older ones, that kind of remind ourselves, like, what we're doing here, what is the purpose, what is the point. You know it's about more than you know hype or even sales, like we're trying to build something here and I think events like Subjective are really crucial in pushing the space forward and helping you know really crucial in pushing the space forward and helping you know the people who are doing that to stay connected to it.

Speaker 1: 4:09

So, in terms of the people who are actually coming to check out the art, on the assumption that Subjective is made up of a community of Web3 artists, is that right or are they just digital artists in general?

Speaker 2: 4:22

So Subjective is put on by Doton, who is an artist but also owns Loom, so he has a production team. Loom works with Web3, but they also work with really big brands in that space. So they're doing productions all the time, but this event was specifically for Web3. It was the first one that they've done. They did our event, but we paid them to do that. Their event produced by them, organized by them. So, yeah, it was that's what they were doing.

Speaker 1: 4:57

And so, in terms of you know, breaking out of the echo chamber and some of the people that you got to speak to throughout the event, what were the sort of conversations that were being had? Like, what were people aiming to understand about, like the Tezos art community, or whether it was just, I guess, like the blockchain ecosystem overall?

Speaker 2: 5:15

Well, you know, like there's the standard questions of I try to like avoid the NFT conversation. Often you go there and people kind of check out, so keeping it more in. Like there and people kind of check out, so keeping it more, and like there's a digital art movement happening, this is where you find it. You know these are all artists from all over the world and they're able to be here because of this and that, and people are definitely interested. I think you know a lot of the conversations I have are with people who aren't artists. Like there were real estate investors there and just like you know, random people who were getting like seeds planted you just never know, like when it might grow into a new Web3 collector or something. So, yeah, there was a lot of conversations like that and then, obviously, a lot of conversations with people who are already in the space. I think you know events like that are such a great opportunity to build partnerships with people that you wouldn't necessarily connect with. So who knows what will come from that?

Speaker 1: 6:27

Tezos artists that came to be involved at the event. What went into that process when you started trying to, you know, filter through, like the massive art community that Tezos actually has.

Speaker 2: 6:34

Well, first of all, I always say to people I'm not a curator, I'm really not a curator, I'm more of a community organizer than a curator. So when it came to like choosing, essentially I did an open call. I didn't have a lot of time, the lead out time, I think I had about two weeks kind of thing between when I had to get the art to them and when everything was kind of confirmed and when I knew, because I didn't know how many screens I would have and all this sort of stuff right. So everything was a little bit last minute, which tends to be the way things happen around here. At least that's been my experience. So I did an open call and really I did that because I wanted anybody to be able to be in it.

Speaker 2: 7:20

Like you know, you don't necessarily have to be my friend. Obviously, if I know you, you got a good chance because I might think of you, right know, you don't necessarily have to be my friend. Obviously, if I know you, you got a good chance because I might think of you, right. If I don't know you, though, I want you to have an opportunity. So I didn't have time to search through the depths of object looking. There were some people who I just knew should be there, you know, people who've been in the ecosystem for a long time, people who are well-known, people whose art to me really stands out, like Violet Bond, for example, and Lawrence Fuller. They should be there. And then there were some people who were part of it that I didn't know at all, whose art was part of the open call and I thought that it was great and it would be valuable there. And then there were some people too who I thought should be there for diversity reasons and for representation.

Speaker 2: 8:11

So, yeah, it's, it's not always about the art. That's why I don't like to call myself a curator, because it's not for me, always about the art, it's more about the community and you know, know, that's really why I'm doing this. It's, it's for the community. It's obviously not everybody gets to be part of it. I wish, you know, everybody could be. We did a good job in the spring getting, you know, 100 plus people in, but, um, you know, for this one it was smaller. But I think overall, like showing that art on Tezos is just as good, if not better, than art anywhere else you know is important and we should be at every event like this and you shouldn't be left out because your art is on Tezos.

Speaker 1: 8:55

And I also think that when it comes to trying to and to use a word that I know you don't want to identify with necessarily I mean to use a word that I know you don't want to identify with necessarily it's like to curate this community of artists. It's very difficult to get a representative sample, or at least a small representative sample, of an ecosystem that is so big. I guess the blessing and the curse of the Tezos art community is that it's so abundant, but you need to know where to look to find it. So if you're not sort of immersed in the Tezos art community, you're not necessarily going to get that immediate exposure to it, unless you're attending events like this and, I guess, experiencing them for the first time. So was there, you know, like was? Did it kind of? Did it kind of reflect anything back to you when you sort of selected the artist?

Speaker 1: 9:43

But you also saw what was coming in the open call in terms of where the tezos ecosystem stands today on the art front. Like is the activity still, you know, as high as ever? Has it dwindled a bit like? What's the ecosystem currently looking like? What's the morale across the artistic community?

Speaker 2: 10:00

well, my open call was actually not super well responded to, but I I am always being punished by Twitter, so that's not a representation of Dezos, it's a representation of my Twitter being locked down, basically. So I'm sure there were a lot of people who didn't see it, but I mean there was, there was more than enough to choose from. I think a few months ago if you'd asked me that question I would have said you know, it's not what it was. We're still not back to where we were. I don't know, I'm not sure if right now Tezos feels better because we've been doing better or because everybody else is doing so much worse that our like you, you know, just sort of plodding along like at a, at a normal pace where it's just kind of like calm, feels like this is a winner.

Speaker 2: 10:53

Although I did say the other day somebody was talking about there was like some twitter thread about how, you know, platforms are shutting down and all of this, you, it feels like doom and gloom in other places. But Tezos kind of feels the same and I said who could have guessed that an ecosystem built on not hype and, like you know, more reality, like prices, were more realistic, the people, the reasons for buying was more. You know, usual. It made sense. Like you understood who could have predicted that that would be sustainable. I mean, it is right, like it's, we haven't really changed that much, like the ethos that we came there with was still the same.

Speaker 2: 11:44

We didn't come same. We didn't come. We didn't come to tezos thinking we were gonna get rich. So you know, for the last year nobody's been thinking anybody's gonna get rich, not just on tezos, anywhere, and a lot of people left because of that. But, like you, didn't come to tezos to get rich, so why would we be leaving now doesn't really make sense. So I would say that the um, the overall sentiment is like decent on tez, um, but I don't know. I mean that. I I think overall, if you look at the whole space, we're doing pretty good right now.

Speaker 1: 12:20

It could be better, but you know we're we're doing all right I do think that there was a general sentiment and this goes well beyond art that I guess broader crypto's rebound wasn't as strong as everyone was predicting at the beginning of the year and so, while it has been a drastic improvement, that bullishness or that energy or that aggression just sort of dwindled a little bit. But it's. In speaking to some of the artists within the tesla's art community, what's become apparent is that there was almost a calm that that brought. It was you know like, while developers were often thinking like, oh, we build in the bear market, artists were thinking it's actually quite nice to have a moment of silence and calm so I can just do my work without, you know, the pressure of the pressure of doing any artist drops that were like pressure of trying to drive sales online from morning to night, and so I think it's allowed kind of this cultivation of new creativity in terms of people getting a little bit more experimental, people feeling less pressure to always be pitching, to always be selling, to always be exhibiting.

Speaker 1: 13:34

I hope that that's still the case. I think there's perhaps a quiet confidence that's growing within the Tezos art community. It's like, through thick and thin, it's sort of always stage buoyant, but are there any sort of new kinds of art that you've noticed recently, like are there newcomers to the space? Or is it sort of like the familiar, familiar, friendly faces Like how is it growing, if at all?

Speaker 2: 13:59

I mean I think there has been some new artists coming in, although it does seem like they're maybe like bigger artists being brought in by you know entities, that a ton of people, and that is not happening right now. But it's very hard to onboard in this market where it's like before you could onboard and be like initially, like when I first came to this space, I did not understand anything beyond the I could make money here, right. There was nothing beyond that. That's kind of like the thing that brings people in and then you need to learn more. Like it's a learning curve, Like you don't get it right away. And I feel like right now, asking people to come in with little to no chance of monetary reward anytime soon is a tough sell, Like it's a tough sell.

Speaker 2: 14:59

So, but I think what you said. You said this quiet time is the time that the people who are here are building and making this stronger foundation and it's also shaken out a lot of the scammy stuff and the people who weren't here for the right reasons are gone. They're all gone. They'll probably come back if the money starts flowing Hopefully not. So I think that there is value in this quiet time, although it's been going on for a while, so it wouldn't be bad if there was a couple little upticks. I think, though, events kind of break it up, and these exhibition opportunities that artists are getting. That means a lot to an artist right. Like, even if you're not making money, to have your work exhibited in New York or Miami or wherever it is is like a huge deal. It can make it feel like it's not you know, just you wasting your time on Twitter, for example.

Speaker 1: 16:04

I mean, I also wonder, with the, you know, the world being thrust into a pandemic for the last few years meant that this online community building was so much more natural and organic to us. And now we have the option to come back offline and then, as you said, you know, display these works in physical spaces and have these people experience them out in the real world. It means it adds a dimension, but it also poses another challenge, because the mechanics that NFT artists in particular became familiar with or became experts at is just not necessarily the most lucrative way to present their art to the world, as it once was. And then I do think, yeah, as you mentioned, just like, beyond digital ownership over their works and you know whether it's royalty structures and what have you the monetization element was a big draw for crypto artists. So what do you think would be, I guess, the main hook for them beyond that monetization? Like, what is the thing that's going to bring people back into the space if we were to start aggressively onboarding once again?

Speaker 2: 17:11

Well, I think that there's a lot of possibilities in terms of, like, how we're going to be able to. I mean, we're seeing it already, with platforms shutting down and artists are starting to look at it and say, okay, you know, maybe I need to be using this tech, like on my own website. I mean, realistically, this gives artists a way to sell that we didn't have before. So, like, once people understand that, I think there's a lot of value in that and that could bring a lot of people in. But, like, will it bring them into a community? I don't know. Like, I'm not sure that what we had in 2021 and 2022 will ever be replicated. Like when we grow, it's not going to be like that. Like you know, once you get huge, you don't have this small community. You know, I've said to a couple couple people recently who I met within the Tezos ecosystem I'm like you know it feels like this is a really small space, but it isn't as small as it once was and there are a lot of people that you know I come across with a lot of followers. You know a lot of mutual friends that I'm like I've never seen you before. So, like we are, I think we are growing and we are bigger than we think we are, but also, yeah, that that kind of I think that foundational community that exists and existed are the people who will build what we need in order to onboard the rest. Right, and I I don't like we're not ready for everybody right now. We're not.

Speaker 2: 18:45

Everything is complicated. It's difficult to use things. I mean, tezos is the easiest, but even getting people to like get a wallet, like even that step right. And then I think you know, being able to take a payment, like fiat payments I think that's like crucial because so many people are scared of crypto. It's like you've got to get them in the door with what they're comfortable with and then you start educating them further. Right, but like that's all going to take some time. So I think, in terms of like the tech just makes sense. I like things that make sense and this makes sense to me.

Speaker 2: 19:23

I feel I've said it from the beginning like never liked collecting on ETH. You know, with the gas prices, the way it worked, it just was so it just felt counterintuitive, like it didn't make sense. Why would I be? You know, I wouldn't use a credit card if, every time I use it, I had to pay 10 bucks, like stupid. But with Tezos, like obviously, I didn't have that problem. So it's always been easier to like onboard and collect. And now we're seeing like ETH, is you know? Now we've got Rodeo over there where everybody's collecting things for 30 cents and it's like okay, is that where we're going? Wait, I thought Tezos was supposed to be the cheap art, now where we're going. Wait, I thought tezos was supposed to be the cheap art.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Now we're expensive, okay. I mean, I think I think a lot of what you've raised is not unique to the art space. I think it's just across blockchain as an industry and crypto as an industry, you know, whether it's trust issues, whether it's user experience, whether it's just all the friction points people have to encounter before they actually get to start interacting and transacting within Web3 domains and Web3 platforms. But I do also think it's interesting, because I think these are kinks that need to be ironed out, whether it's art, whether it's DeFi, what have you. At the same time, it's interesting that there's this sort of it's almost like turning art into a bit of a vending machine that you can just like collect, like you can put in 30 cents and then you get a quality piece of artwork out.

Speaker 1: 20:51

So there's this, I guess, confusion and how the art space is maturing, because, obviously, like it's about concentrating value and like having these art pieces appraised as they rightfully and fairly should be appraised. It's not just about collecting something because it's cheap. So I think there's still a lot of learning curves to be had in that, in that regard. But at the same time, we are still seeing institutions sort of jump in and we are still seeing like the institutional participation. So like, how do we, how do we bridge that gap between, like the big art institutional names who are coming in and then the artists who are very much grassroots and trying to meet them where they're at?

Speaker 2: 21:33

well, I mean, I think that there's been people who are doing that like relatively successfully. I think a lot of you know the question. A lot of the brands that have come in were clearly just coming in for money, right. Like who? Who is working on these? Like these teams that understand like what's, what the potential is here and what's actually happening like beyond that, like quick monetary gain, how do we connect artists with them?

Speaker 2: 22:03

I mean, it's so easy to connect with people in this space. That's like the that is the best thing about it, right. Like you have access to all of the artists, the collectors, like they're all right there, you can message them. I mean they might ignore you, but they're there, right. So I mean I think that that is a big difference between the traditional art world and this world. You know, you sell a piece in a gallery, you have no idea who bought it and you'll probably never speak to them, whereas here you get that connection. So I think there's a lot of value in that. I mean definitely for institutions, like having this sort of, you know, turnkey community that you're able to come into with.

Speaker 1: 22:45

You know, this whole group of people who are all who already understand what's happening is like super valuable, I think it also makes me wonder, because a lot of these institutions bring in already renowned artists and say here's a new domain for you to present your work and to exhibit like a new way to almost exhibit your work. So there has to also be a balance between raising the profile of the grassroots artist community and trying to recognize talent, and balance between raising the profile of the grassroots artist community and trying to recognize talent and, as you said, the connection shouldn't be that difficult, it's quite easy to connect with people online versus raising the profile of already established artists into new domains. So I would say I think sometimes that's been considered a bit of like a a contentious area, because they're saying you, we don't need to uplift those that have sort of already been uplifted. It's about recognizing new talent in corners of the Internet where you know many people haven't tread before.

Speaker 1: 23:43

Because I think institutions provide a legitimacy. They provide a lot of the functionality of the conventional art world that crypto-based artists could really benefit from. But at the same time, unless it raises their ceiling as well, it doesn't really offer much benefit to the greater community if it kind of devolves back into this hyper-exclusive, hyper-cur, hyper curated niche crowd. So how do we? How do we make this fair and equitable, and not just, you know, in terms of giving any old artists a platform because they're unrecognized and they're new, but also just trying to again to use the word curate genuine talent, where it's often hard for them to, to find that spotlight?

Speaker 2: 24:34

yeah, I mean, and even in this space, like I know, patrick amadon made a tweet the other day where he had he made a tweet asking who which artists are, like this, the cure for boring, or something like that, and then you know, all these people responded and he said it's really interesting that, like, none of the top artists were on this list and most of the artists that were named are not people who get near the recognition they deserve. Like, even in this space, there's a big disconnect between what's popular, what makes money, and what's you know, really like talent. Like I'm not saying that all of the people who are making money aren't talented, but like, just because you're not making money doesn't mean you're not talented, right, so like, but it's the same with the traditional art world. There's a there's who you know and your connections. I feel in this space and others tend to be the most important thing. Like, if you're good at marketing yourself, you're good at selling yourself, like you're going to be way better than someone who's maybe you know a way better painter than you or whatever. Like it's not just about talent. So that is like an issue, that how do we get over that? Because we're human and we tend to an issue that. How do we get over that? Because we're human and we tend to, you know, like we want to do business with people who we like. So, like you, instantly, you just naturally like go for people that you know, like those connections, obviously.

Speaker 2: 26:03

But how do you make that equitable, like you said, like I think that really like having open calls as part of, okay, you're going to bring in some big-time artists.

Speaker 2: 26:15

I actually think that's a good thing because it brings attention that we need right, bring in the big artists, but then do an open call and bring in somebody from this space. Give everybody an opportunity to have a chance to be there as well. I think there are ways that we can do it in like a way that isn't going to anger everybody. I think that's you know that too, because it is true, right, we have this great opportunity. We're going into some great museum and we're going to bring an artist who's never done anything in this space before and we're going to put them in Like get why people are upset about that? We have no of talent here, like I mean, there are artists in this space that absolutely blow my mind, who certainly deserve every opportunity, but they don't. They don't have that profile. So, yeah, I think, I think there are ways that we can, that we can do both without, you know, disregarding one or the other.

Speaker 1: 27:12

They both play important parts, but I guess the critical question kind of becomes like where does the onus lie? Who are we appointing as responsible and accountable for helping that happen?

Speaker 2: 27:24

Yeah, well, that is definitely a question because right now, as it stands, it's essentially the people with the money are the people who are making the decisions, right, like they're the ones who are making the decisions of who's going to be seen for the most part at these big events.

Speaker 2: 27:43

And you know, I'm not like criticizing them, but also that's like they're going to have their own lens, they're going to have their own biases and perspectives, so it's never going to be representative of the whole community, which is true for anything. So, right now, it's the people with the money are the ones making the decision. And, you know, I think, if we take that into account, there are ways that we could maybe get around that. Like, texas is so small enough that I almost feel like we could do some sort of like government type situation where there's like elected representatives that have a little committee and, you know, the community can vote for these people and these people get to curate or whatever. Like I think there are things we could do, but those companies who have the money and, right now, all the power, they're the ones who have to be okay with doing that. So are they going to be? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 28:40

And I think, going back to your previous comment, like finding out that you know your talent and as talented as you may be may not necessarily be the thing that pays you as an artist. And it is you know, the marketing, it's the exposure, it's the connections, the relationships is a challenge, so what are some of the tips that you would offer? Let's say, a newcomer to Tezos, someone who has a lot of art. They've understood who the Tezos art community are. They want to get involved. What do you think they should do?

Speaker 2: 29:08

Well, I think like, what artists? What artists need to realize, unless you're working with a gallery who's just going to do everything for you and take a big chunk of money to do it, then you are an entrepreneur, like, you have to be the business person and if you don't run the business part of your art career, it's not going to happen. It doesn't matter how good you are Like and and that's also that's the sad part, because a lot of artists don't have that, you know, they're just not aligned to that. They don't have that mindset. Like they're creatives, they don't necessarily have a head for business. So I, you know I see a lot of people who struggle with that. For me, I'm a, I'm a photographer who's had a commercial studio for many years. So, like I had an advantage because I have been doing all that stuff already. So, even though it sucks that, you have to do it, you do have to do it. So people come in here and they think you know, my art's amazing, it's going to blow up. Well, if it suits the taste of the collector demographic that we have right now, which is very small, and they tend to like similar things, which doesn't necessarily match other places outside of this space. So if you fit in that, you might do well. But for the most part people have to work and hustle here, just like in the real world. If you're building your art career, have to work and hustle here, just like in the real world. If you're building your art career, you're building a business. It's the same thing. So it isn't easy, but it also like I see this as another opportunity to be seen and reach a new audience and really like for me.

Speaker 2: 30:47

You know, I live in a road in New Brunswick. Nobody knows where that is. There's something above Maine and that's where I live. So there are really hardly any. The galleries that are here sell riverscapes Like people would never. Everybody knows who I am here, but nobody has ever asked to buy my art here. Right, they want my nice pictures I'll take of them, but they don't want, you know, naked people or people in a slaughter truck on their wall. But like people in New York, they might. People in LA, they, you know, like having the ability to reach people for most of us around the world that don't live in these big cities and don't have connections like that. That's invaluable for artists all over and it gives them opportunities that we never had before, even even if you're selling your art for small amounts like selling, selling them for small amounts. So for most people who live in little areas, like you're probably, you're probably gonna have to work a lot harder for a lot less.

Speaker 2: 31:48

So it it? You know we were, we were because of 2021, we had these like insane expectations. There was no way we weren't coming down from that Like there was no way. How do you come back from that? Right, I'm like, oh my God, all these photographers I know are making hundreds of thousands of dollars. All of a sudden, like you know, there's this mad rush, but that was never going to be sustainable or reality, right, but what is reality is? This is a new marketplace with a lot of freedom for artists. It's allowing us to like collaboration is huge here. I don't know if there's ever been a time in history where artists have been able to collaborate in this way and are on such a large scale right with people all over the world. Like you know, I've collaborated with people on the other side of you know the continent. Like when could I have done that? So, yeah, there's a lot of value here. It's just maybe not as obvious as it was before. You've got to dig a little deeper.

Speaker 1: 32:54

And, I guess, not as inflated as it once was, because I think it's a refreshingly pragmatic take. I do agree with you that we can't basically aspire to what was effectively an anomaly when it came to the market in 2021.

Speaker 1: 33:09

We need to sort of not necessarily create a more modest expectation of what this art domain is going to look like or how it's going to develop, but more a realistic one. And I do also really agree with the sentiment that, like you know, your passion may be art, but there is going to be a lot of work that goes into showcasing your art. That just isn't as fun, isn't as exciting, but is going to be the thing that gets you that exposure. And it's about branching out and like finding new audiences and doing, frankly, a lot of the grunt work that I guess most of us wouldn't want to bother to do if we didn't have to do it. That all being said, I'd love to round out the conversation with generally asking what you're working on next. You know, like, what have you got in?

Speaker 2: 33:57

the pipeline and what are you excited about for the rest of the year? Well, personally, I've been working on a lot of art. I have two series, 11 piece series that I just finished up, that I really want to mint on Tezos, and I've been reaching out to some people in the ecosystem. But what I need is to be able to put multiple files in one NFT Because it's a series. I want collectors to have the whole thing. It doesn't make sense if you just get the middle one, for example, or the end ones, because it tells a story. Each piece is part of the story, for example, or the end ones because it tells a story. Each piece is part of the story. So figuring out like a way that that can be done, ideally on Tezzo. So I'm kind of working on that right now. And I also have a couple of collaborations.

Speaker 2: 34:43

I did one with Lindsay Infinite Mantra in my bathtub in the studio. I put her in her art and this I really loved doing it, Like it wasn't technically her art but it was inspired by her art, and I think that's something that maybe I want to do more of like now that I have so many friends in this space and you know artists who I really love photographing them, but being inspired by their artwork and creating artwork with them in it makes a lot of sense to me. So I've been doing those two things and I'm going to Miami in a few weeks, I guess. Well, a month, we got it in a month. I don't know what I'm doing there yet.

Speaker 2: 35:24

I've been trying to see if I could put something together, but I haven't had a lot of luck on venue. But it's still kind of up in the air, so I'm not sure I know. There's a lot of Tezos things that are going to be happening. I don't know the details on those yet, so hopefully I'll be involved in some way, but I'll be there regardless. So the very least I'm going to the beach.

Speaker 1: 35:44

And I think it's a, it's a vast improvement from you know the incoming cold and I love the idea of you know like this fusion and this collaboration with the other artists that you've met over the last few years. Where can people sort of follow all of your work if not, you know, on Twitter?

Speaker 2: 36:01

Well, yeah, nobody can find me on Twitter, but really I'm like locked down there. But I am on Twitter and Farcaster under my name, but you won't. You won't find me. You literally will not find me, so I won't even tell you to search me. But you can go to my website and on my website, that'll like direct link you to me. Um, my website is just victoriawestportraitcom portrait with no S. Um, and yeah, you can email me, victoria, at victoriawestportraitcom. Um, and yeah, find me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. I'm all over the place.

Speaker 1: 36:36

Awesome. Well, victoria, it's always a pleasure and thank you so much for your insights and you know best of luck with Miami and, if anything, enjoy the beach.

Speaker 2: 36:44

Yeah, thank you so much.